Connecting Our Conversations: Inside the 227th General Assembly

Rev. Shannan Vance-Ocampo sits down with Rev. Kevin White, Rev. Kate Carlisle, Elder Rachelle Lee, and Young Adult Advisory Delegate Michael Ofori to reflect on their experiences representing the Presbytery of Southern New England at the 227th General Assembly of the PC(USA). 

Together, they share stories of  action, worship and fellowship, and what they believe the Holy Spirit is calling the church toward next. 

Transcript

Why This General Assembly Matters

Speaker 1 0:07

Well, hello everyone. This is Shannan Vance- Ocampo. I use she and her pronouns, and I serve as the general presbyter for the Presbytery of Southern New England. And this is connecting our conversations, our podcast space for conversations that push the edges of our faith and help us to deepen discipleship. And the Presbytery of Southern New England is a regional governing body in the Presbyterian Church USA. So it's the uh second full week of July, and we are uh recording this podcast after the General Assembly, which is the every two years annual national meeting of the Presbyterian Church USA, where all sorts of things happen and get decided. And we wanted to interview and talk with the team from our Presbytery, our commissioners who just got back from that General Assembly, the 227th, and hear some of their reflections and their thoughts, and also hear from our state clerk, Kate Carlisle. So we have with us today um ruling elder Rachelle Lee, who's a member at the Martin Luther King Community Presbyterian Church in Springfield, Massachusetts, and Kevin White, who is the pastor at Calvin Presbyterian Church in Cumberland, Rhode Island. Kate is joining us from Boston, Massachusetts. And our young adult advisory delegate, or YAAD for short, Michael Ofori, is a member at First Presbyterian in Hartford, Connecticut. And Michael's gonna join us in the second part of the podcast. So we'll definitely hear his reflections in the second half of our conversation. So we're just gonna take some podcast time to talk about the General Assembly, what happened, what were the experiences, and what was the work you all were engaged in. So we're so glad to have all of you here to share with us. And so welcome Rachelle and Kevin and Kate, and we'll welcome Michael when he arrives.

Meet The Commissioners And Clerk

Speaker 1 2:05

So I wanted to start with introductions and just give each of you a chance to introduce yourselves and uh say a little bit about who you are and why uh you wanted to go to the General Assembly in the role that you have as a commissioner or as a stated clerk, even though we're assigned to go, Kate and I. Um we still have reasons why we want to go, right? That are beyond the job that we have, right? So um so whoever who would like to go first? Uh Rachelle, I see you're unmuted.

Speaker 4 2:32

Hello, everybody. Hey Rachelle. My name is Rachelle Lee. As Shannon said, and I don't know why my voice is cracking at this point, but I'll get through this. Um, I served at GA as a ruling elder commissioner. I can honestly say I had no interest in going. When I was asked to go, the person called me. They said, Would you be willing to uh represent the Presbyterian Southern New England at this year's General Assembly? And I said, Ah, I'm gonna have to pray about that. Give me about a week, so then a week and a half goes by and my phone rings, and it's the person, and like, well, and really immediately the Holy Spirit said, say yes. And so I said yes, uh, with some trepidation, but I knew it wasn't me, it was absolutely the Holy Spirit, and um the rest is like kind of history. Um I don't know if you want me to go further about like when I was assigned my committee.

Speaker 1 3:53

Yeah, we'll we'll do introductions and then we'll circle back to the committees for sure. Yeah, because you had a very interesting committee, Rachelle. Kevin, why did you want to go?

Speaker 4:03

Uh yeah, Kevin White, uh Shannan said I'm the pastor at Calvin Presbyterian in Cumberland, Rhode Island. I also um am a part-time the part-time Protestant chaplain at uh Bryant University, where I've been working on getting a chapter of Ukirk started. So um that's been going on for uh for a little bit. But um why did I want to get so so my answer is probably different than Rochelle's, and um I'm a little embarrassed because my my answer is far less spiritual than hers. She had a good, good, um, good spiritual and religious answer as to why she wanted to go. Um I think one the main reason I wanted to go is I am just fascinated in kind of a nerdy geeky way by like how organizations work. Like I'm one of those people that when I get a jury duty summons, my first thought is oh cool, I get to like be a part of the go like be in the inner workings of this process. Um so uh it'd been on my radar for a while. Um, my family does uh uh an annual kind of family reunion vacation around the first week of July every year. And so um past GA's, there's the over it overlapped too much, and so it just wasn't um something I was able to do, but uh the calendar just worked out. Um so our vacation was the week after GA finished. So um I uh actually contacted our uh nominating person at the Presbyterian was just like, hey, I know this is coming up. Um if you're I I'd be I'd be happy to go if um if the way be clear and um and all of that. So uh I'm gonna trust with a nod to Rachelle's reasoning. I'm gonna trust that the Holy Spirit works through even those those means um to to get us where we're supposed to be. So um yeah.

Speaker 1 5:53

Yeah, absolutely. I'm always afraid to get a jury duty summons, Kevin, because my second call in ministry, the Episcopal priest in town, ended up on a federal grand jury, and they kept him for three months. They they kept continuing him, and we just never we like didn't see him at our clergy lunches, and he just like disappeared and it was very stressful for everybody. And so now I'm like that just freaked me out.

Speaker 6:19

Yeah, yeah. I was actually got called not too long ago, and uh, I think the only reason I didn't get selected was the length of time they thought it was gonna be a long case, and like I had a I had already a funeral planned for like two weeks out that I was doing, and so I was like, I couldn't do it, but so you're like nope, yeah.

Speaker 1 6:37

So Kate, tell us about you. Why did you want to go to the assembly this year? What was what was drawing you to to go?

Speaker 2 6:45

Hi everybody, I'm Kate Carlisle. I s uh my pronouns are they and them, and I serve as stated clerk here in PSNE and also our neighbor presbytery, Boston Presbytery, and also serve as one of the ministers on staff at a church in Boston. And I wanted to go to GA because I am just really enthusiastic about the Presbyterian process. A lot of what you said, Kevin. I'm I'm the same way. I like the way big groups of people work. Um like many folks who end up uh finding their way into work as stated clerks, I was, you know, I've been um a Book of Order enthusiast since a pretty young age, and I've followed GA for years, even when I didn't have a role. And while stated clerks and other Presbyterian leaders don't have an active role in the assembly, we are there in a support role and in I think the the very important role of just witnessing what the assembly is doing um so that we can be in the room praying with and for the assembly, worshiping together, and then sharing some of what we've seen and um helping explain stuff that happened there to the to the presbyteries back home. Um and I just am I find myself really grateful for the way we work as a Presbyterian church.

Speaker 1 8:30

Yeah, it's a really it's I every year I show up at that assembly and I'm like, I am honored to be here, right? Like it is an honor to be in the room. And um it takes a minute to just remember that the first day you walk in that room. Um because time goes by, right, in between them, Kate. And you're sort of like you forget what that feels like when you first walk in. So um it remains that, I would say. So

World Mission Restructuring And Global Witness

Speaker 1 8:55

let's talk about the committees, because uh, I mean, boy, our um commissioners got amazing assignments. Um and we don't have anything to do with it. You know, your your names just go into the, you know, we sort of call it the sorting hat, right computer, and it just buzzes all your names around in some algorithm and uh tells you where you're going. Um, but I definitely think Rochelle, with you, the Holy Spirit showed up and put you in exactly the right committee. Because when you told me where you were assigned, it was like, oh my goodness, Rachelle has got the skill set for that, for what's gonna be in front of that committee. So I don't know if Rachelle, you want to talk about your assignment and your committee. You had a lot of stuff in front of you.

Speaker 4 9:36

Oh, absolutely. Um so, Kevin, I too am a policy wonk and a humanitarian. So that's how why um the Reformed Identity Around the World committee was right in my wheelhouse. I was nervous when I saw the name of the committee, and then I started reading. And I started thanking God, like you put me exactly where I'm supposed to be. And then after that first day of Zoom meetings, I literally got off. And I was just thanking God, and I'm like, listen, this is it, this is my wheelhouse, this is absolutely for me. Um very um the overtures were pretty difficult, and we probably had about 11. And I'm gonna read the stuff that um we dealt with and then make some comments about the more difficult ones.

Speaker 5 10:45

Yeah.

Speaker 4 10:46

So it was the call to review the restructuring of PC USA World Mission, calling for a new miseological, that's a mouthful, miseological statement for the PC USA, on seeking God's peace through nuclear disarmament in the 21st century, on recognizing that Israel has violated the international law prohibiting genocide, peace and justice through just and peaceful means, overture, embargoing Israel, call Israel's war and Gaza genocide, concerning co-workers, um, on Jeju in Korea, advocacy for religious minorities in Syria for racial equity advocacy committee, on affirming Cairo's Palestine to a moment of truth, faith in a time of genocide, reaching out in concern for the Presbyterian Reformed Church and people of Cuba. So, like I said, all of these overtures were difficult, but there were a couple that sparked more intense conversation.

Speaker 1 12:16

So And I want to say, Rachelle, some of those are such a privilege to get to work on, too, right? To be to be part of the solidarity for folks in some of these places. I'm thinking of the names you're reading out, you know, Gospels, Area, Cuba.

Speaker 4 12:31

So for like particularly the first overture with the um the coffer review and the restructuring of the world mission. What I was thinking was how the administration dismissed hundreds of black women unceremoniously. Um and so I felt it a privilege to be able to advocate for people who were harmed and perceived the perceived harm and to be able to support them. Um that was really um fulfilling to be able to um like kind of advocate on their behalf, I guess. Yes. It it sounded like uh the transition was not smooth and some people were um silenced in a way, so um that was a good one uh to be on and to be a part of, and then there was an interesting thing that happened with uh the language around genocide and um white nationalism, and people wanted to soften the language, and I was so thankful that um the people in PC USA were not having it. Right. Um and I'm usually a person that just sits and listens and waits for everything to happen, and then I wrap it all up. I didn't have to say anything in committee other than vote the right way because everybody was really looking at all of our issues through a humanitarian lens. And um so it was uh pretty uh pretty intense and then um experiencing affected people in the Zooms and you know why they were advocating for um why they were advocating for these particular overtures and listening to their experiences. And at GA, I was good I was able to hold it together until the man from Palestine hit the floor. And I couldn't I couldn't stop the tears. Um it was really a worthwhile experience and um very proud of uh my committee and the hard hard work that we were able to do.

Speaker 1 15:45

You you all did excellent um work as a committee, I thought, Rachelle, dealing with incredibly challenging things and um really some of the most painful things that were in front of us um organizationally. And uh so I um I'm really grateful. I'm extremely grateful, and especially as someone who came off the board just before everybody got let go, right? The board was ended and um um the executive just director was dismissed, and then uh the stuff happened with the mission co-workers, and I had been working alongside them for so long and spent so much time with them internationally, and um uh was not one of the people who lost my position, but um it's it's been a lot. That's been a lot to hold on to emotionally over the last few years, and um, I'm looking forward to us continuing to look at it over the next few years. I think it's good and healthy to do that, even if it may be painful and some painful information might come out. Um, the light is a good thing. So um, and I agree.

Speaker 4 16:55

I thought I'm happy to serve, I tell you. Um I was every time I told people that I was going to GA, there literally was like, oh my gosh, this is gonna be real hard. And I just it was difficult emotionally at times. However, um there were there were no decisions that were difficult to make that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 17:34

Yeah. I'm glad you felt that way and felt like the spirit was moving in both like you as an individual, but also in all of you as a collective, as a team, as you work together. And I'm very grateful that our former moderator, um, Fahad Abu Akel, got up on the floor and spoke his truth as a child victim of genocide and war, and got up to speak at that important moment. Um I was out in the hallway listening, and um he walked out and I had a chance to just greet him briefly um as he came out and uh have talked to him many times, but had an opportunity to shake his hand and speak to him briefly and thank him. Um it's very hard to get up and tell your truth like that. And he's done it many times, but it doesn't make it any easier, of course, to do that. Um, and he's a gift as a former moderator. So thank you, Rachelle. And also I think, you know, I wonder how you felt, Rachelle, about this, but I was noticing with your committee that juxtaposition about talking about the letting go of so many mission coworkers and the loss of those places of ministry and work while at the same time receiving overtures about like things actually happening that are so important, and sort of that juxtapos juxtaposition of like, we're walking away from some of these things, but things continue to be incredibly important. Like, how did that feel for you?

Speaker 4 19:02

Okay, I'm not sure if I understand your question.

Speaker 1 19:04

Like you're letting go of some work, but it doesn't mean like there's not going to continue to be an incredible need for work in those places. Like that idea that we've left some of those spaces. And then that work was like in front of you in those overtures around Syria and Cuba and things like that. I just wondered if that was a lot to hold for all of you.

Speaker 4 19:27

Um not really. I like I I I really had this um ability to uh like categorize or separate things out. And I think it's really from an experience of my former working life. I worked in the federal court system, so things are constantly moving. You know, there's this next thing, and then this thing is totally different, and you got this thing. So comb compartmentalization, and I think I'm using that word wrong. Compartmentalization for me is um I can do that. Um I just have always been good at like juggling different things and not feeling that it wasn't complete. So I think if we moved from one thing to another thing and it wasn't like really completely settled, I was um I felt very good about okay, this is the overture that we're gonna put forward, and it it it's good enough. So I don't necessarily know if I experienced any angst around um like moving from one thing to the other.

Speaker 1 21:05

That's good. That's good. Well, I as soon as I saw your name assigned to that committee, I I was like, oh, this is perfect.

Speaker 4 21:14

Oh, you didn't because you initially said Well, I said it's gonna be a lot, but I know I are gonna have uh we we'll we'll we we'll we'll need to school you. Yeah, we'll need to. I was like, and so that made me really nervous because I hadn't read anything at that point. Oh, oh, oh. Oh my gosh, what have I gotten myself into?

Speaker 1 21:36

But I was also thinking about all your professional history, Rochelle, and competencies, and that that is like absolutely the capability it just what you were saying to come into that committee and be able to deal with the, you know, the busyness of the business in front of them and also the um the complexity of it, right? Um, that you've you're you've used you're used to doing that with with. The work experience you've had and the professional life you've had. So I I was deeply grateful. So grateful.

Speaker 4 22:06

Oh, I can tell you you did make me nervous though when you said that's a hard one. But I hadn't read a word. So you said that's a hard one. It is. Kate and I are probably gonna need to help you with it. And I was like, oh my gosh. But once I started reading, it was like, okay, nope, this is definitely my real hope.

Speaker 1 22:24

And it was okay. I can't say I wasn't nervous initially. Well, we worry, we probably worry too much. So I'm not gonna worry anymore. That's what I learned at this general assembly. So um, so I want to welcome Michael Forey, our young adult advisory delegates.

A YAD Joins And Finds His Voice

Speaker 1 22:42

And Michael's um, Michael, we were just doing introductions, and Rochelle just shared about her uh committee assignment. But uh Michael, just tell us a little bit about you and then we'll circle back to you about your committee.

Speaker 3 22:54

Yeah. Uh hi guys. First of all, it's great to see all you lovely faces again. It's truly a blessing. Yes. Um, my name is Michael Forey. I was a young adult advisory delegate. Um, and I was assigned to the Racial Justice Committee. And I I do have to add that my committee was phenomenal in you know, present in presenting themselves and like just being open and like just um being able to teach me the ways of you know the Presbyterian, the Presbyterian Church uh USA, and just being very um welcoming. Our moderator was phenomenal. Um, and our so is all like the the whole team was just amazing. And um it was it was such an eye-opening experience to just be a part of GA, just to be a part of you know, making and amending laws and everything. Um it was it it felt comforting as well because I during high school I was also part of the you know um student council, I was uh student council body president. Um and uh I was also I also served as the senior um the senior board of education member representative for the town of Newington. So it felt very comfortable for me, but it was just learning about the Presbyterian church and the rules and everything that goes into it was really eye-opening and very inspiring. So yeah, everything was great. Everything was great.

Speaker 1 24:31

Yeah, well, we also we all loved hanging out with you, Michael. So big time.

Speaker 3 24:36

Oh, likewise, it was easy, yes, yes, yes, yes. Likewise, yeah.

Speaker 1 24:42

Yeah. So Kevin, tell us about you and your committee and what that was like, and uh, and then we'll circle back to some of the other stuff with Michael's work too.

Gender And Sexuality Debates With Care

Speaker 24:52

Yeah, um, yeah, Michael, it's good to good to see you. Glad you're able to to jump on. Um uh yeah, I was on the uh gender and sexuality justice committee, um, which when I first got that, I was like, oh, oh I wonder if this is gonna be the the one that had brings a lot of uh a lot of heat. And um because in in the past there's certainly been um been a lot. We had uh I think it was I think we had 10, maybe 11, 10 overtures. Uh one got uh taken out of our our committee and into the the constitutional interpretation. Um and that was the one I was uh that was that that overture about um the new requirements that was poorly written. And uh you know, we don't need to go into that, I guess, unless you want to. But um that was the one when I saw the mess. Yeah, yeah. Um and that was the one when I saw I was like, oh, this is gonna be the hot mess, and what's how's this gonna be? And then it wasn't in our committee. It got pulled into the constitutional one. So um I wasn't there, but uh yeah, we had some that that turned out to be uh generate a lot of a lot of discussion, some um some disagreement. There's you know, in the in the committee certainly some disagreements on some of them. Um and then on the floor of of GA, there were some that uh definitely I think elicited some very um strong emotions, uh some cases probably rightly so. Um yeah just thinking about the experience on our on the committee though, uh like uh I think like Rochelle was saying, my experience on the committee uh was really good. We had great great moderators. Um and uh it was it was strange. It felt strange to say this, but uh after all our work was done, like that whatever whenever that last day of our online Zoom committee meetings and we had finished everything we needed to do before the in-person GA, um, I had this feeling that I was like, I felt like I was a better person for having been a part of the discussions we had, like which was kind of felt like a strange. Oh, good. I'm seeing some people nodding. Um, that makes me feel better. Uh, but you know, kind of a strange feeling. But I was like, I it was just there was something about it. Um, and there were moments at at GA and the at the in-person where I had a similar feeling. Um, but just I think uh some of the conversations we had um were deeply uh important. Um and really struck, I mean, it really strikes at the heart of like what it means to be human and to be uh who we are individually, who we are together. Um and to hear the convert the conversations, even in the disagreement uh uh around when there was disagreement, um it was just overall it was in a very uh caring way. Uh I felt like. I mean, there were some moments, we're all human, um, there were some moments, but um and I was just some of the stories that some folks shared around when we were discussing some of the some of the overtures that we had. Um I found myself just in awe of hearing um the stories that people were sharing um uh around around the issues. Um one of the overtures was uh on um Gen 02 was on on access to healthcare. So it was just about it was about declaring uh that you know the PCUSA supports individuals to have access to health. Uh I think the wording was medically necessary evidence-based gender-affirming healthcare. Um originally in that there was a clause that said, uh, if I remember right, like including minors. Uh and so we had discussion about that. And most of us, I think, were generally like, yeah, like this is this is really important. We want to say that. And it was actually shout out to the YAADs. Um some of them on our committee shared uh and and some of them folks that I'm trying to think of how how to how to share some of this without going um betraying other people's stories, but um raised concern and some of them from a very personal like for themselves raised concern over not wanting that to be a lightning rod that caused further harm. Um and uh had some powerful stories to share around that. Uh and so we had a discussion that you know that it already said um support all individuals and all means all. So um uh and that was a case of um I think what really struck me about that is the and this is the challenge of ministry, especially in these times, I think a lot. And I'm sure it's always been that case in one way or another, but it it feels uh especially so now um that balance of trying like coming up like really strong prophetic, like versus is the is that gonna cause further harm to the people that you are trying to be prophetic for? Um and that was the discussion. We had I actually when I saw that overture, I was like, oh, this won't this is not gonna be the one we spend a lot of time on. Um but we did because that really was the discussion. And um, you know, and I don't I don't know what the quote right or wrong answer to that was on that particular wording. I know where we landed, and uh I we were all, you know, we that's where we landed uh by by and large. Um I think it was almost a unanimous vote, I don't remember, but it was overwhelming. Um I don't know what the right or wrong thing is, but just engaging in those conversations um was not easy. And you it's not like you leave with this is always the right way to do it, and this is never, you know, but just just having that and remembering um yeah, that there are like the reason you want to be your prophetic voice is to protect the vulnerable and to care for the um the folks who need it. And there might be times when you want to be out there, especially me, like I'm a I'm a middle-aged cisgendered white guy, um, where I want to if I want to be, but um I'm also not the one that the the heat is gonna come down on in lots of those cases. Um, and so that was just that was just one of those things where it surprised me because I thought I read it and I was like, oh yeah, this will be um this is we're not gonna spend much time on this one. And we ended up just having some just really powerful uh conversations and kind of group discernment um around around that. Uh yeah, so I don't know. I could, I mean, I we could talk more about other lots of the other uh the other things we we did.

Speaker 1 32:07

Um and I I noticed too, Kevin, that the mod there was a lot of faithfulness around that, first of all, I thought. And um when the moderator of your committee got to the plenary floor to present your business, actually took time to pause before that one was up for vote to say a little bit of what you just said and give a little insight into their deliberations and to also acknowledge the incredible contribution that the ads made to that conversation that helped shift and change it and um really put an emphasis on that all means all, right? And we don't need to say, like carve out minors in a way that could potentially get weaponized against them in the conflicts that we're in. And there was great intent behind it, but we're also wondering like, how could this, you know, because things are so strange. So it was um, I liked that she did that on the plenary floor too, was took what was clearly it's really intentional conversation. I saw some of it on the live stream, but carried it forward because also wanting the whole assembly to understand that as they voted, which wasn't like in the written out stuff, even in the the changes you were making, right? So um giving some more insight. I thought that was really um good uh that she did that. It was it was a woman that that spoke, I believe, right?

Speaker 33:26

Yeah, yeah, uh Olivia, yeah.

Speaker 1 33:28

Forgetting her name. But yeah, so any so I thought that was also really great because you all offered that gift to the whole assembly.

Speaker 33:34

Yeah. And that was, I mean, that was that was one of those cases where I walked when I said like you come away going like, wow, I feel like I'm a better person now. Um yeah.

Speaker 1 33:44

Fantastic.

Speaker 33:44

Yeah.

Speaker 1 33:46

So Kate, were there particular items of business you had your eye on or were watching that were of particular interest to you that uh you want to highlight?

Book Of Order Fixes And White Nationalism

Speaker 1 33:55

I know we're gonna talk about some of those a little later, but I anything. I mean, I'm sure you had things on your mind as you were coming in.

Speaker 2 34:03

You know, I think most of the ones that I was paying the most attention to have been discussed already. Yeah, the, you know, the items around our various um social witness uh positions and um advocacy for justice here and around the world is I I really um I I think the other things that I had my eye on were on the complete opposite end of the spectrum, the kind of nuts and bolts sorts of things the um uh on the Boston side of things, our trustees just last night was discussing the an authoritative interpretation on G40206B, um, on the some of the clarifications on uh uh on wording, um, a proposed amendment to clarify wording around what kinds of like boundary training and child abuse prevention and and other things like that that we're obligated to offer, just cleaning up some of the wording so that it's more clear what we're obligated to do and how. Um, and some of those things that answer questions that we have been asked just in the day-to-day running of the presbytery that will, you know, absolutely never get attention in the press or on social media, but do make a difference in the life of the church. Um and then the other thing I think I um um was paying a lot of attention to was the stuff around white Christian nationalism and particularly the decision to send to the Presbyteries an amendment that would put some really strong wording um that is it's not new, it's very much of a piece of where our position has been for years, but to clarify that wording to use a specific language around white Christian nationalism, and then to put some of this language into the Book of Order is it's not a new idea, it's not a new position, but it is a it's a different orientation to that position. Um and really I think incorporates it into who we say we are as a church at a much more fundamental level. And so that was an another thing I really was um paying attention to. Yeah.

Speaker 1 36:56

Yeah, that that's a big one, and we're gonna talk about that a lot this fall as we get ready to vote on it as a Presbyterian. It's a big one, it's incredibly important um for so many reasons.

Racial Justice Stories That Stay With You

Speaker 1 37:08

Michael, tell us about racial justice, your committee, and excuse me, some of the business that was before you and what leapt out at you and anything you want to tell about the work of your committee and team that you were on.

Speaker 3 37:25

Yeah, so the racial justice committee was um I felt as though it would be um I actually didn't have a like um an idea of what the presbytery's um like i ideals and ideas and you know their plan was to um was for the racial justice like for racial justice within the presbytery and how we are you know you you like utilizing resources to then um lower the uh impact of you know what you know racism does within the like within our communities. And so, you know, going into going into it, I had no idea what you know what I was gonna get from this, what was gonna be presented. And it was very it was very like touching, it was very um eye-opening, and it was it was really tremendously an amazing time getting to hear all these stories and um and it was it was very uh I felt it was very heartwarming because you get to hear these uh you know heartbreaking stories from uh other people that have gone through this and you know it's it's very uh it's a very you know touchy subject with some people, some individuals as well. And you know, just hearing how the presbytery is here for you know those individuals and you know many other individuals beyond the presbytery was really just heartwarming and it really made me feel good that you know our voices are heard and you know we're also seen that that we could, you know, fight um racial inequality. And uh it was it was also it was uh it was just amazing the way our community, our committee came together to discern and put out just amazing work that goes towards making people feel more at home, you know, making people feel that they are heard and seen, not because of you know where their ethnicity where they come from, you know, they feel at home because they have an amazing group of people from different that are that is very you know diverse within the presbytery, and it's they have that family to hold them, you know, in times of you know um heartbreak and you know sorrow. Um our moderator was um phenomenal, and our vice moderator was also they handled themselves very, very well. Um I'm for I'm forgetting her last name, however, um Reverend Pat and she was just amazing. Um I did think though she was gonna be a little a little on the stricter side, you know. However, when when when she was just like, all right, guys, you know, you know, let's do a little stretch break. She was leading us through stretches, just thinking about us and like just wanting to have like you know our minds fully there, you know, really truly shows how much she cares about this work. So um it was it was just great. And then meeting her in person at GA was even more incredible because not only does she light up when she saw me, but she she opened her arms, she was like, give me a hug. Like we took a picture, and it was amazing. She brought our committee, like our committee together. Um she brought our committee together, and it was it was a truly amazing experience with her. Um the other ads were also great. Um, you know, we now have you know lifelong friendships from that committee. And um I speaking about our committee and the YAADs, I just like Bruce Warner's um uh Instagram post about GA and how much of an amazing experience he had. Um and you know, I really also want to commend Bruce because he spoke up a lot um amongst the Yads for you know, just he he was very you know outgoing and you know even within like the committee, he seemed a little bit on the shy side. However, getting to GA and just seeing all of us, I feel made his voice you know stronger, you know, because he had that sense of family, which I which I talked about earlier, which is just amazing to see like people just come together and just express that, you know, since because we have their backs, you know, they feel heard, they feel seen. So I I truly do want to um commend Bruce Warner for that. Um but yeah, all the all the other YAADs um coming together to discern with it, like even beyond my committee as well was truly an amazing experience as well. Um I thought, you know, in this day and age, you know, people you know I thought young adults actually are you know less in less um in tune with what's going on. You know, they're less but however they they proved me wrong. They proved me so wrong, and I was like, wow guys, this is amazing. This is truly an amazing experience that you guys are really like you're you're you're keeping up with the times, you know. You're keeping up not just you know on your phone, you know, we're not just you know Snapchatting, Instagraming, no, we're staying in tune with what people are dealing with on in the in real life, and it's it's it's truly amazing. Um, I was like, wow, there's more people that are you know just not getting their phone, more adults, um, which is amazing and great.

Speaker 4 43:46

Um Michael, I did want to say this. You Kevin can't even count how many times I was gonna say this say to him, boy, we are in good hands. I was a little nervous.

Speaker 44:00

Uh-huh. I was gonna bring that up. We would, yeah, and it would be after there'd be whatever you know was being said on the floor, and it'd be and then one of the YAADs would get up and say something, and Rachelle would just lean over to me and be like, Yep, yep, we're it's we're gonna be okay. Like yeah. Yeah, the the the YAADs. We're including you in that, Michael, by the way.

Speaker 5 44:29

Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 1 44:30

And I and Michael, you said to me, we were sitting together on Tuesday at the synod lunch, and I was asking you, how's it going so far? And the first thing you said to me, Michael, I don't know if you remember, was that you felt so listened to in your committee that you and the other YAADs had a lot to say and a lot to offer, and you never felt like your voices were dismissed. Like you were you felt very included in your committee and you felt like you were having impact. And I was so glad when you said that to me when we sat down to lunch and were just chatting for a few minutes. That was fab that I thought that was fabulous.

Speaker 3 45:03

Yeah, yeah, it was, it was I, yeah, it was truly an amazing um experience. And it like I really do thank the PC USA for just making us feel heard and you know feel safe as well. And I really also want to say thank you guys as well, because you know, without you know, my Presbyterian and you guys behind my back, you know, I wouldn't feel you know that type of support, you know. Um, and you guys were always checking up on me, see how seeing how I'm doing, and you know, just making sure that you know uh I was good and I really truly do appreciate each and every one of you. And um I I truly, I truly do thank you. I thank God every day for blessing me and you know, with with you fabulous people. I really truly'm lost for words. Like, thank you. Well Michael, thank you.

Speaker 1 45:59

We're so glad you came. And I am sorry again about what Columbia did to Ghana at the World Cup. I apologize. Uh no, you know, but you know what? Switzerland fixed it later, and Columbia got what it deserved, right? Like they got they got in trouble for it later, so I apologize. So sorry, Michael. I pre-apologize before the game. I apologize again after the game.

Speaker 3 46:19

Like yeah, but yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, now we'll see where it goes, you know. But yeah, I also I was watching the Columbia game as well. Um, after and you know, I you guys did amazing. It was it was truly amazing.

Speaker 1 46:36

Yeah, yeah. We had what my husband finally found his soccer shirt like two days ago and was wearing it. I'm like, uh it's over now. He's like, he's like, but I found it, I put it on. I was like, oh my god.

Speaker 46:46

It's never, never too late. Never no no.

Speaker 1 46:50

And we were we were chatting in church after about it on Sunday, and everybody's like, as long as Argentina, like everybody's like, so now we're all like united in our feelings about the villain, right? But it's it's just it's just sports, it's just

GA Moments Beyond The Microphones

Speaker 1 47:01

fun, right? So as we wrap up, um, what sorts of things like didn't we talk about that you want to put on the record or say something about or that was interesting to you or came up, or even not like even business, but just like the assembly itself and all of that. Like anything else you want to share?

Speaker 47:21

Yeah, I'll like uh like most presbytery things, right? Like it's a it's a small world. And so I was surprised at how many people I knew there because partly it's there's just whoever happens to be commissioners from their presbytery wherever there are, like the there's a good handful of folks that from uh I was in seminary with that we would just walk in and was like, hey, and uh let's grab, you know, and we grab grab dinner once and um stuff like that. I I got to go uh on the the Sunday we were there when we had picked you know the churches, there was a list of I goodness, I don't know, what was it like 30 churches or something you could pick to go to. They had shuttles to. And um when I got that list, I was like, oh man, how did like how do you pick? And so I just clicked on the website of a few of them. And I think the third one I clicked on, the pastor there was somebody I was in seminary with in Richmond, Virginia, who was there, and uh it was a church that uh served as it was one of the last stops on the Underground Railroad before Canada. And so uh and they're still involved in a lot of uh justice um ministry. So I went I went there and um they're still uh like at that church down in the basement where part of it is now a fellowship hall, and there's some things, but there's some unrenovated sections that are still some of the like the tunnels in the places and the the where um uh folks who were making their way to you know um enslaved folks who were making their way to Canada uh would would hide out for a bit. Um so thing things like that. Um and just running into yeah, running into folks and uh I had a a moment I alluded to this. Uh this was part of that moment on the floor when there was just this uh it was somebody offered an amendment to something, and then somebody offered uh tweaked language to that amendment, stuff like that. And there's the one one side of you that kind of wants to hit your head against the the the table, like okay, like let's um but I I had a moment where I was like, oh, this is how uh even to the point of what Kate was talking about earlier about we're fine, getting the language right because it matters. Um, and so even even in that process, um, you know, it's something you kind of do in session meetings, and sometimes it's just like, oh, can we just move on? Um, but seeing it on the big picture, like I don't know, it was just one of those weird moments where you're like, oh, this is like this is actually good. Like when we say we we discern the leading of the spirit better together. Um, this is like idea, like in a this this is what we're talking about. Um is seeing getting getting that that stuff right. Um yeah.

Speaker 1 50:18

Anything else anyone wants to put on the table?

Speaker 4 50:21

So there were a couple of interesting things that I did. I went to a reception for um the Reverend J. Oscar McClaw. Yes, and um they were celebrating him. He had written a book who also is a spry 90 years old.

Speaker 1 50:43

Oh, yeah, he was handing me his book the other the night after editing.

Speaker 4 50:48

He was on it, and it just so happened that I went to um what was the name of the church that I went to? Um he's amazing. I can't remember. Oh, it was a special worship service, da-da-da. And the Reverend Dr. Danny C. Murphy. My gosh.

Speaker 1 51:11

Yes, Danny's fabulous too.

Speaker 4 51:13

That were entire worship service was amazing, and they fed us after, and then it turns out the Reverend McLeod and his wife sat at the same table with me. And it was just like, wow. It was it was really something. It was just it was really good. But I'm gonna end my comments with this.

Matthew 25 And A Wider Moral Test

Speaker 4 51:39

If I were writing in Matthew 25, this is what I would have said. Um I I think Jesus would have added something to it. So Jesus would say, when I was hungry, you did not see me. When I was thirsty, you gave me nothing to drink. I was a stranger, and you did not invite me in. Naked and you did not clothe me. I was sick and in prison, and you didn't visit me. When I was attacked, you didn't defend me. Right. And that's how I just kind of congratulated my entire experience with research to the General Assembly.

Speaker 1 52:40

Yeah. I agree. Thank you, Rochelle.

Speaker 3 52:52

Yeah, um I f I want to end off saying, um, I truly am I I'm truly blessed to be in this position. And um also wanna say if anyone feels called or hears a calling to come do this good work, to do it. Because then I'm sure you know all the commissioners and everyone here got to learn a little bit more than what they put into it, right? And so it's a it's a it's a very great learning opportunity, not for a young adult, but also as a commissioner as well, or you know, staff or anyone that was also involved in GA. Um, and especially as a yeah, do it. You know, I I I was like, well, okay, I don't know if I want to do this, you know what I'm saying? I don't know where a lot of people already had the experience, and so I was more comfortable saying yes. And I was even more comfortable when you know we were sitting in committees of the Zoom, um, and you know, everyone was you know participating and you know just calling on each other to just you know share their voice. You know, my committee was sharing each other's voices and asked us to share our voices, which is great. Um and I also do want to say uh you know I want to give a big thank you to Courtney and um Claire. Um they were the YAD uh um coordinators as well for the whole GA, and they did a phenomenal job um handling um some of the trickier conversations within the YADs as well. And that um everything that they planned out you know in the beginning of you know uh GA was also a great tremendous experience to you know get to learn everyone and like get to interact with uh different people. Um I also want to say a big thank you to our GA um moderators as well, because they have you know opened my eyes up to you know maybe uh maybe going to seminary, you know, a long time. So um and everyone I heard something about this last week about you, Michael. Yeah, so um I I do want to thank um everyone and uh the GA moderators as well, and um you guys as well, because you know, if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't have even you know put that thought in my mind. So um, thank you so much. Yes.

Gratitude New Co-Moderators And What’s Next

Speaker 1 55:30

Fabulous. Yeah. Thank you so much, the three of you, for all of your work on, you know, not just the Preston of Southern New England, but the denomination and a fabulous team. We've been so blessed with our commissioners. And I we also had other folks from PSE that were with us that were not commissioners, but at GA for other functions, right? So we had uh TJ DeMarco, who's pastor at Providence Presbyterian, but TJ's also acting city clerk for the synod and part-time city clerk for Northern New England. So he was wearing like a couple hats at the assembly. Um, new members, Clayton Thomas and Tricia Dillon Thomas, clergy couple, were both there in their roles with the Investment Loan Program and the Omaha Presbyterian Foundation. Kirk Lewis was with us. Uh Kirk's wife, Javon's a former moderator, former pastor at Providence, and Kirk is under care of RCPM, so still part of us. And also Haley Shire was there. We didn't get to see her, but she's um one of the uh staff that works with the advocacy committees that had such an important role at the assembly. And she works for the national office, but she lives in New Haven and goes to our church in New Haven. So um Haley was there as well. It's hard to find her because she was like working, working, working in the whole assembly, but she was there. So we had other adjacent PSNers with us, and that was really fabulous as well. And I'm glad we got almost all of us together for that group photo with the um, and I liked with the co-moderators that they made cutouts of them and put them on the wall because everybody wants a selfie with a moderator, and they were like, we can't accomplish it. So we're just gonna like go to, I think, like office depot or something and make these big selfies and put them on the wall. That was fabulous, and people were having so much fun. That's a great addition. We should do that with like our moderators of the Presbyterian, just like I think like randomly put their like big selfies in churches and people will be like, what's going on? You know, I thought that was kind of fun. So um, I don't know if Jenny and Kat and Keith want that, but I think it's really fun. But I don't think I don't think we should give them a choice. I think that's what we should do it, and we'll just like find out later. Yeah. Or listen to the podcast. We'll see. This is a test to see if it looks like it's right. But it was a great team, and I'm just really um, everybody had such great roles at the assembly. And um I was um honored to be there to honor Diane Moffett, Reverend Dr. Diane Moffat, who um did amazing work for this denomination. And um I have all sorts of feelings about all of it, but I her work is its own body of work and stands the test of time. And we it's continuing. It it is not erased in any way, shape, or form. And so um that was a it was that was a great night to have so many people around to celebrate Diane and um uh her family's just so incredibly gifted. So I've heard them sing before, but it's always like whoa, when they sing. So it was fantastic. And we have two new co-moderators of the General Assembly. We didn't get a chance to talk about them, but I just want to say for the record, uh, Marta uh Pomeroy Codero and Christopher, uh, I'm gonna mangle his last name, uh Schoden Schuldenmeyer, I think is how you say it, um, are the new co-moderators. And so they we we've changed up how we do that in the denomination. They used to get elected like day one and then have to moderate the whole assembly, and now they get elected on the last day, travel around, get to know the church, and then they moderate after they've kind of figured out some stuff. And I think that might actually be really good because I thought um uh the co-moderators like really had like all the business under control coming into this one. Whereas they do even when they were elected before because the staff is there helping them, but um, but they'd like been living it for the last two years and working with so many of those teams and commissions as they brought their reports to the assembly. So um General Assembly will be in two years' time, and we will be in San Juan, Puerto Rico. And uh so that's gonna be uh its own kind of fun. So um, but I'm so grateful to all of you, Kate and I both so grateful for all of you being such fabulous commissioners, representing the Presbytery, representing yourselves, um, and uh being faithful to the call of the church. And I can't wait to see what the Holy Spirit's gonna do with all the work of this assembly. We've we moved really moved a lot of balls down a lot of fields at this assembly, so it's exciting to see. So I just want to say thank you to all of you.

Speaker 1 59:59

Thank you for being part of the podcast, sharing um your stories, and we'll definitely be doing some more of that in the fall at the Presbyterian meeting. So thanks for being on connecting our conversations.